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Phil MC
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Post subject: Re: Cheerio after brief ownership Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:29 pm |
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Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2012 3:22 am Posts: 248 Location: Glasgow Vehicle: MPS6
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Gavin
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Post subject: Re: Cheerio after brief ownership Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:38 pm |
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Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:49 pm Posts: 7622 Location: scarborough Vehicle: other
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Bhp: 250
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Colour: Black Mica
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yea thought so, my mate came telling me about a cheep 6 on copart from scotland. So basicly it needs a new engine as he is interested in bidding on it.
_________________ MPS KILL COUNT 1 MK1 3. twice 1 six
now driving a German whip
Mk5 r32
ita all about the noise.
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Phil MC
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Post subject: Re: Cheerio after brief ownership Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:43 pm |
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Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2012 3:22 am Posts: 248 Location: Glasgow Vehicle: MPS6
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Just to keep you guys in the loop, I've had an email from my tuner, Alex at Stratified, regarding the 6 MPS engine failures. Hope this helps some of you in the future. He's also kindly offered to refund my tuning fees, which was kind as he didn't have to do that at all. I'd take from this that if anyone is gonna remap the MPS, then you can't go far wrong by getting the services of Alex onboard for peace of mind with his safety on the vvt side of things. Quote: Hi Phil and I am very sorry to hear about these misfortunes. Did the VVT actuator give in right at the same time as the conrod let go? Unfortunately there are many stories with the MPS cars blowing up. This is especially true of the MPS6 since it generates a higher load on the engine being AWD and heavier - even ones that are completely stock. I have myself done in-depth analysis of what goes on with these cars and it appears that detonation kills the engines slowly, the rods bend, and eventually give up. Mazda has calibrated these cars very aggressively in terms of VVT from the factory (which causes a high dynamic compression ratio) and on the highway it is common for the car to stumble when you get on the throttle after a longer cruise. Have you noticed this with yours? Also a tell-tale sign of the engine starting to let go are vibrations in the clutch pedal. Did you experience these? The root cause is aggressive VVT timing and very hot combustion. It causes some severe detonation that over time weakens the conrods and they let go. This is of course unless something else happened at the shop. Starting with 2010, the VVT timing was revamped from the factory and new pistons fitted to the DISI engine and the cars no longer blow up. On my own MPS3 I had the same issues and have resolved them with a reduction in VVT timing - and since then I have not had the car stumble once. All the MPS cars I tune I make these changes to keep them safe but it is sometimes too late as the damage is done over time. There are many resources on blown speeds here: http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/forum/f10/mazdaspeed-2-3l-disi-turbo-blown-engine-resource-thread-6113/ I can refund you the price for the tune to help things out a little. Thank you, Alex
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Phil MC
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Post subject: Re: Cheerio after brief ownership Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:44 pm |
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Gavin wrote: yea thought so, my mate came telling me about a cheep 6 on copart from scotland. So basicly it needs a new engine as he is interested in bidding on it. I even left the decat downpipe fitted (freshly heatwrapped).
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Adaptle
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Post subject: Re: Cheerio after brief ownership Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:47 pm |
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Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2011 10:31 am Posts: 1444 Location: Notts/Derby border Vehicle: other
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I'm going to Alex once my downpipe is installed so whilst I really feel your pain mate I am thankful you posted that to read directly from Alex as it puts my mind at ease a little. I didn't know the mk2 had different internals.
_________________ Sold - Mk1 3 MPS Black.
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levl
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Post subject: Re: Cheerio after brief ownership Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:56 pm |
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Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 10:33 pm Posts: 932 Location: London Vehicle: MPS6
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Phil gutted for you mate!!! mind posting your VVT timings table here?
_________________ Self-tuned with | Lenso D1R & Avon ZZ3 | CS TMIC | DO STG1 Meth Inj | HTP TIP | Forge BPV V2 | M2 Catless DP | ReWorked K04 hybrid | 3Bar Map sensor |MSCAI as SRI | NGK LTR7IX | CBE | KMD V2.1 HPFP internals | FCM delete | disabled VTCS | JBR SSP STG2 | JBR Spherical knob | JBR EGR delete | SURE TorqR6 RMM | SURE Element Shield | TurbineTech Diff mount | 6000K HID Fogs&White LEDs | Boost gauge | DashHawkV2.51 | sport AERO rear bumper | C-MOD grill | MTEC slotted rotors | EBC Yellowstuff | Throttle coolant bypass | STI 06 lip |
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Spam man
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Post subject: Re: Cheerio after brief ownership Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:58 pm |
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RM BIK |
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Phil MC wrote: Just to keep you guys in the loop, I've had an email from my tuner, Alex at Stratified, regarding the 6 MPS engine failures. Hope this helps some of you in the future. He's also kindly offered to refund my tuning fees, which was kind as he didn't have to do that at all. I'd take from this that if anyone is going to remap the MPS, then you can't go far wrong by getting the services of Alex onboard for peace of mind with his safety on the vvt side of things. Quote: Hi Phil and I am very sorry to hear about these misfortunes. Did the VVT actuator give in right at the same time as the conrod let go? Unfortunately there are many stories with the MPS cars blowing up. This is especially true of the MPS6 since it generates a higher load on the engine being AWD and heavier - even ones that are completely stock. I have myself done in-depth analysis of what goes on with these cars and it appears that detonation kills the engines slowly, the rods bend, and eventually give up. Mazda has calibrated these cars very aggressively in terms of VVT from the factory (which causes a high dynamic compression ratio) and on the highway it is common for the car to stumble when you get on the throttle after a longer cruise. Have you noticed this with yours? Also a tell-tale sign of the engine starting to let go are vibrations in the clutch pedal. Did you experience these? Going off this then, what should be replace to prevent this? Any links anyone? And more importantly, how much we talking? The root cause is aggressive VVT timing and very hot combustion. It causes some severe detonation that over time weakens the conrods and they let go. This is of course unless something else happened at the shop. Starting with 2010, the VVT timing was revamped from the factory and new pistons fitted to the DISI engine and the cars no longer blow up. On my own MPS3 I had the same issues and have resolved them with a reduction in VVT timing - and since then I have not had the car stumble once. All the MPS cars I tune I make these changes to keep them safe but it is sometimes too late as the damage is done over time. There are many resources on blown speeds here: http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/forum/f10/mazdaspeed-2-3l-disi-turbo-blown-engine-resource-thread-6113/ I can refund you the price for the tune to help things out a little. Thank you, Alex
_________________ 100% Meth / Fully forged / ACT 6 Puc & lightweight flywheel / monlar rods / wiseco pistons / arp studs / Versatune / corksport FMIC / Garrett GTX3076 / Brock Injector seals / Autotechs / Dreadnought & Juggernaut / GT RARB / Speedline front lower struts / Speedline lateral struts / corksport front braces / corksport rear upper braces / CS side braces /H&R springs / Bilstein B8's / CS BBK / Rear EBC Yellowstuff / JBR 5mm spacers / JBR OCC / Forge V2 / AWR 80a REM / 3" DP / Jetex / 3.25" Sure intake / Sure BSD / SURE TIG / Butterfly delete / EGR blockoff / Hel brake lines / Xcarlink / kendo SSP & Bushes / Step colder NGK 0.6mm gap / Fog and Driving light HID's / MKii alloys Build thread http://tinyurl.com/otzp6qwHelpful threads http://tinyurl.com/kjykgbdhttp://www.ThroughTheLensMedia.co.uk AVOID TOTAL MPS http://www.mpsowners.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=20073
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DJJUT
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Post subject: Re: Cheerio after brief ownership Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:11 pm |
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Global Moderator |
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Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 8:16 pm Posts: 4296 Location: Grays, Essex Vehicle: MPS6
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levl wrote: Phil gutted for you mate!!! mind posting your VVT timings table here? You will notice the reduced VVT in the lower rpm..... This was my first VVT table on stock K04 turbo and usual bolt on mods. The only thing that differs to Phils is the columns in the higher RPM's but his were lower. Even with my setup now I run the same lower RPM VVT but more aggressive up top. At idle you will be at the top of this table where VVT advance would be 0. Very good of Alex to offer a refund.... top guy!
_________________ 2010 MPS3 Mk2 Forged / Sleeved Engine, CS Cams and Crower Valve Springs, BNR S4 Turbo, HTP 3.5" Intake, HPFP Internals, 2050psi Fuel Rail Relief Valve, JMF Intake Manifold, DNP Exhaust Manifold, Dual OCC Setup, Cobb Turbo Back Exhaust, Airtec FMIC, Port Methanol Injection ..... Tuning in progress with a goal of 480-500bhp :-)  
Last edited by DJJUT on Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Phil MC
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Post subject: Re: Cheerio after brief ownership Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:25 pm |
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Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2012 3:22 am Posts: 248 Location: Glasgow Vehicle: MPS6
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Cheers for that Justin, not sure I'd have been able to post that myself, LOL. Yeh, Alex has been great from the start, and I'd highly recommend his services  .
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danneth
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Post subject: Re: Cheerio after brief ownership Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:39 pm |
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Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 5:39 pm Posts: 418 Vehicle: MPS3 mkI aero
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Excuse my ignorance, whos alex?
_________________ Mods : Hypertech + Corksport SRI + TIP
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Phil MC
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Post subject: Re: Cheerio after brief ownership Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:53 pm |
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Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2012 3:22 am Posts: 248 Location: Glasgow Vehicle: MPS6
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Alex Gutica is the owner of a company called Stratified Automotive. He's a very well thought of Mazda tuner/mapper here in Europe, Oz and USA. He's based in British Columbia, Canada and gives a brilliant remote custom mapping service for the MPS via Versatuner. http://www.stratifiedauto.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=72Here's a quick pic of the exit hole from where bits of conrod, block & sump exploded from, nearly taking out my mechanic and his apprentice in the process  .
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Jaz
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Post subject: Re: Cheerio after brief ownership Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:54 pm |
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Joined: Tue May 17, 2011 1:04 pm Posts: 895 Location: Bristol Vehicle: MPS3 mkI aero
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Gutted for you mate, never nice to hear things like this :(
_________________ Black MK1 3 MPS Aero - AP Tuned - Now SOLD - but not forgotton Showroom Thread
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Gavin
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Post subject: Re: Cheerio after brief ownership Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:09 pm |
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Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:49 pm Posts: 7622 Location: scarborough Vehicle: other
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its done all that damage at idle, that amazing. i hope mines ok.
_________________ MPS KILL COUNT 1 MK1 3. twice 1 six
now driving a German whip
Mk5 r32
ita all about the noise.
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Gavin
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Post subject: Re: Cheerio after brief ownership Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:44 pm |
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MPSOC Member |
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Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:49 pm Posts: 7622 Location: scarborough Vehicle: other
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oh just curious how its ended up on copart, did you sell it to them?
_________________ MPS KILL COUNT 1 MK1 3. twice 1 six
now driving a German whip
Mk5 r32
ita all about the noise.
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Azzaboy
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Post subject: Re: Cheerio after brief ownership Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 3:42 am |
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Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 11:42 am Posts: 2087 Location: Dunfermline - Y'Kin! Vehicle: MPS6
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 me mate, that is some luck. Really feel for you fella - I need to bookmark this thread - am getting 2nd cat removed the the map tweeked so will be showing him this. Can't believe it ended so violently and at idle after all the data logging looked good. Shabby ending.
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