Mazda MPS Owners Club
https://www.mpsowners.co.uk:443/

Cheerio after brief ownership
https://www.mpsowners.co.uk:443/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=7987
Page 3 of 8

Author:  Phil MC [ Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cheerio after brief ownership

Here's the link to my car if you fancy bidding for it Justin. Great nick apart from the engine.
Current bid at £500 only :thumbs: .

http://www.copart.co.uk/c2/homeSearch.html?_eventId=getLot&execution=e3s1&lotId=14627422&returnPage=SEARCH_RESULTS


Kev, only had 62k on the clock with full Mazda history for every little part....was a pampered car!!

Author:  Gavin [ Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cheerio after brief ownership

yea thought so, my mate came telling me about a cheep 6 on copart from scotland. So basicly it needs a new engine as he is interested in bidding on it.

Author:  Phil MC [ Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cheerio after brief ownership

Just to keep you guys in the loop, I've had an email from my tuner, Alex at Stratified, regarding the 6 MPS engine failures. Hope this helps some of you in the future.
He's also kindly offered to refund my tuning fees, which was kind as he didn't have to do that at all.

I'd take from this that if anyone is gonna remap the MPS, then you can't go far wrong by getting the services of Alex onboard for peace of mind with his safety on the vvt side of things.

Quote:
Hi Phil and I am very sorry to hear about these misfortunes. Did the VVT actuator give in right at the same time as the conrod let go?



Unfortunately there are many stories with the MPS cars blowing up. This is especially true of the MPS6 since it generates a higher load on the engine being AWD and heavier - even ones that are completely stock. I have myself done in-depth analysis of what goes on with these cars and it appears that detonation kills the engines slowly, the rods bend, and eventually give up. Mazda has calibrated these cars very aggressively in terms of VVT from the factory (which causes a high dynamic compression ratio) and on the highway it is common for the car to stumble when you get on the throttle after a longer cruise. Have you noticed this with yours? Also a tell-tale sign of the engine starting to let go are vibrations in the clutch pedal. Did you experience these?



The root cause is aggressive VVT timing and very hot combustion. It causes some severe detonation that over time weakens the conrods and they let go. This is of course unless something else happened at the shop. Starting with 2010, the VVT timing was revamped from the factory and new pistons fitted to the DISI engine and the cars no longer blow up.



On my own MPS3 I had the same issues and have resolved them with a reduction in VVT timing - and since then I have not had the car stumble once. All the MPS cars I tune I make these changes to keep them safe but it is sometimes too late as the damage is done over time.



There are many resources on blown speeds here: http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/forum/f10/mazdaspeed-2-3l-disi-turbo-blown-engine-resource-thread-6113/



I can refund you the price for the tune to help things out a little.



Thank you,

Alex





Author:  Phil MC [ Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cheerio after brief ownership

Gavin wrote:
yea thought so, my mate came telling me about a cheep 6 on copart from scotland. So basicly it needs a new engine as he is interested in bidding on it.

I even left the decat downpipe fitted (freshly heatwrapped).

Author:  Adaptle [ Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cheerio after brief ownership

I'm going to Alex once my downpipe is installed so whilst I really feel your pain mate I am thankful you posted that to read directly from Alex as it puts my mind at ease a little. I didn't know the mk2 had different internals.

Author:  levl [ Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cheerio after brief ownership

Phil gutted for you mate!!! mind posting your VVT timings table here?

Author:  Spam man [ Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cheerio after brief ownership

Phil MC wrote:
Just to keep you guys in the loop, I've had an email from my tuner, Alex at Stratified, regarding the 6 MPS engine failures. Hope this helps some of you in the future.
He's also kindly offered to refund my tuning fees, which was kind as he didn't have to do that at all.

I'd take from this that if anyone is going to remap the MPS, then you can't go far wrong by getting the services of Alex onboard for peace of mind with his safety on the vvt side of things.

Quote:
Hi Phil and I am very sorry to hear about these misfortunes. Did the VVT actuator give in right at the same time as the conrod let go?



Unfortunately there are many stories with the MPS cars blowing up. This is especially true of the MPS6 since it generates a higher load on the engine being AWD and heavier - even ones that are completely stock. I have myself done in-depth analysis of what goes on with these cars and it appears that detonation kills the engines slowly, the rods bend, and eventually give up. Mazda has calibrated these cars very aggressively in terms of VVT from the factory (which causes a high dynamic compression ratio) and on the highway it is common for the car to stumble when you get on the throttle after a longer cruise. Have you noticed this with yours? Also a tell-tale sign of the engine starting to let go are vibrations in the clutch pedal. Did you experience these?

Going off this then, what should be replace to prevent this? Any links anyone? And more importantly, how much we talking?

The root cause is aggressive VVT timing and very hot combustion. It causes some severe detonation that over time weakens the conrods and they let go. This is of course unless something else happened at the shop. Starting with 2010, the VVT timing was revamped from the factory and new pistons fitted to the DISI engine and the cars no longer blow up.



On my own MPS3 I had the same issues and have resolved them with a reduction in VVT timing - and since then I have not had the car stumble once. All the MPS cars I tune I make these changes to keep them safe but it is sometimes too late as the damage is done over time.



There are many resources on blown speeds here: http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/forum/f10/mazdaspeed-2-3l-disi-turbo-blown-engine-resource-thread-6113/



I can refund you the price for the tune to help things out a little.



Thank you,

Alex





Author:  DJJUT [ Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cheerio after brief ownership

levl wrote:
Phil gutted for you mate!!! mind posting your VVT timings table here?


You will notice the reduced VVT in the lower rpm..... This was my first VVT table on stock K04 turbo and usual bolt on mods. The only thing that differs to Phils is the columns in the higher RPM's but his were lower. Even with my setup now I run the same lower RPM VVT but more aggressive up top.

At idle you will be at the top of this table where VVT advance would be 0.

Very good of Alex to offer a refund.... top guy!


Image

Author:  Phil MC [ Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cheerio after brief ownership

Cheers for that Justin, not sure I'd have been able to post that myself, LOL.
Yeh, Alex has been great from the start, and I'd highly recommend his services :thumbs: .

Author:  danneth [ Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cheerio after brief ownership

Excuse my ignorance, whos alex?

Author:  Phil MC [ Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cheerio after brief ownership

Alex Gutica is the owner of a company called Stratified Automotive. He's a very well thought of Mazda tuner/mapper here in Europe, Oz and USA. He's based in British Columbia, Canada and gives a brilliant remote custom mapping service for the MPS via Versatuner.

http://www.stratifiedauto.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=72


Here's a quick pic of the exit hole from where bits of conrod, block & sump exploded from, nearly taking out my mechanic and his apprentice in the process :blush: .

Image

Author:  Jaz [ Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cheerio after brief ownership

Gutted for you mate, never nice to hear things like this :(

Author:  Gavin [ Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cheerio after brief ownership

its done all that damage at idle, that amazing. i hope mines ok.

Author:  Gavin [ Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cheerio after brief ownership

oh just curious how its ended up on copart, did you sell it to them?

Author:  Azzaboy [ Thu Mar 29, 2012 3:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cheerio after brief ownership

:censored: me mate, that is some luck. Really feel for you fella - I need to bookmark this thread - am getting 2nd cat removed the the map tweeked so will be showing him this. Can't believe it ended so violently and at idle after all the data logging looked good. Shabby ending. :cry:

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